Comments on: A PIO’s Ethics Dilemma: Spinning a point he does not believe in.

By: 911pix

911pix — Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:46:16 +0000

Fire department drill teams in New York State are indeed a long-standing tradition – for close to 200 years now – and they have always been controversial to some degree. But before anyone rushes to judgement regarding the viability, or lack of viability, of a fire department drill team, I would suggest that – just like anything else – they be as informed about the subject as they can be.

About a year ago I published a book that is a very comprehensive history of this sport, entitled “Chariots of Firefighters: The History and Practice of Firematic Competition in New York State”. It’s a bit over 300 pages long, and it includes just about everything – both good AND bad – that there is to know about its history. If anyone is so inclined I’d humbly suggest they check it out; there’s a synopsis of the book, and information about where and how it can be purchased, at http://cof.911pictures.com.

By: Doug

Doug — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:32:19 +0000

Bull, I would be OK with it if the motorized drill teams are funded exclusively with donations for that express purpose (so long as those donations are not taxpayer funded), or if the members paid for these drill teams on their own.

However, if these departments use any taxpayer funds, be they donations to the FD, contributions from a government body, or otherwise come from the citizens’ pockets, then I feel it’s wrong.

Either way, it seems that we all agree that the PIO should act professionally and carry out the orders which he was given. He can work to make changes inside the department as he sees fit (to the degree he’s allowed to by the organization and its members), but he should carry out the orders which he was given.

By: Bull

Bull — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:10:21 +0000

Motorized drill teams are a long standing tradition in NY state. They not only help improve a member’s physical fitness, but also improve comeradie amongst the dept. Most of the depts that I am aware of are PRIVATE organizations that contract out to the towns, villages, etc for fire protection, ems, rescue services. If in fact they are a private organization, and charge a flat rate for their services who are the tax payers to complain? I would tend to believe that the majority of the money used to fund a drill team comes from private investments made by the organizations for such expenditures. basically they aren’t skimping on equipment or services to support the drill teams, that isn’t how it happens.
In this case the PIO needs to follow the DIRECT ORDER given to him by a superior officer no matter what his personal feelings are.

By: sl

sl — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 23:34:56 +0000

As Billy Goldfeder would say “W.T.F.”!!! How can any department justify spending $200,000 for a racing team??? I have never heard of this type of team before, is this something done by many departments??? I’m from Illinois and in here in the midwest we have waterfighting, 2 teams of firefighters using a hose lines to push a barrell past each other. Our waterfighting team is sponsored by our firefighters association, no department funds are used to support it. I am just dumbfounded at how much money is being spent on this when there are departments out there that do not even have the appropriate PPE or equipment to respond. I would love to know if this department is fulfilling it’s actual mission, provide fire service, to it’s community.

By: Fire Critic

Fire Critic — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 17:51:38 +0000

Here are my thoughts…since you asked!

The motorized drill teams are a long standing tradition.

I have never seen one in person, but I do know they cost money.

The PIO works for the Chief. If the Chief gives an order, he must comply.

Times are tight. Do they hide the fact that funds may be used for this?

It can potentially keep the members fit, but so can a $30 gym membership. I see the point, but I am not sure it fits.

The fact that they may party afterwards is a non-issue and should not have been brought up. I drink after a hard day at work….Firefighters drink whenever they get together (off the job/not on duty). Not just at these events.

The question is what should the PIO do.

The answer is he should do what the Chief told him to do or step down.

Once he complies, he might bring up his issue to the Chief and the team and offer other ideas for funding the team outside of the use of funds specified for the department operations. Maybe they should do fundraising of their own.

my 2 cents!

By: Todd

Todd — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 17:25:52 +0000

I agree with everything Doug said. Unfortunately, I am afriad the PIO needs to write the statement.
Jeff, you mentioned that this is a volunteer fire department. I am assuming then that the PIO is also a volunteer position. In which case, you friend can make a judgement call about if this volunteer position is worth going against what he believes. Obviously, if it is a paid position, the decision becomes much more difficult.
I wonder, though, if he might be able to point out to the chief who he, the chief, works for – the taxpayers who are upset by this irresponsible use of department funds.

By: pg

pg — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:40:47 +0000

What an incredible waste of tax payer dollars and department funds!

If I was a tax payer in district I would be pissed off!

I work for a rural volunteer department. We are expecting county tax revenues to be down 22% next year. We will survive as we have money saved in the bank and are putting off needed projects like a new station.

If it’s fitness you need turn your department on to crossfit http://www.crossfit.com

As for practice kills I don,t see how it beats actual practice on the rigs and equipment you use to respond with.

All that said I watched the video and it looks fun!

However funding should come from voluntary community support through public and corporate outreach and fund raisers… get some sponsors!

Playtime on the tax payer doesn’t sit well with me.

By: Doug

Doug — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:25:23 +0000

My first question is, does this enhance the department’s ability to provide service? If so, how?

Considering he, as PIO, is functioning as an agent of the department, I would say that he should go ahead with carrying out the chief’s order. Now, that’s not to say that he, as a member, has to agree with this decision, but he has been given instructions that he is to carry out.

If he wishes to make changes within his department, I’m sure he is free to do so to the best of his ability. But to not do your job because you don’t agree with it isn’t right.

Now, let me clarify – from what you’ve mentioned here, Jeff, I disagree with the motorized drill team, as well. Times are a bit rougher, and budgets are getting tighter. To spend money on this drill team does not seem to be advantageous to the department. Now, if the members were doing this on their own without using departmental money and resources, that’s their business. But to use taxpayer money (be it donations or government funded) doesn’t sit right with me.

Just my two cents.